Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] Since the subject of "lower priced guitars"
now seems to be dovetailing with "experience," I feel it is time, once again
to post the link to Bill Cumpiano's article, Home/Articles/Articles/pedagog.htm">A Pedagog's Lament.

I've been building guitars for only three years, and I find it helpful to
reread his wise words at least every six months or so.

Best,

Michael
[/QUOTE]

Michael,

That was a great read, thanks for posting that link.

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Christopher C. Cordle
North Muskegon, MI

http://www.yardsaleunderwear.com
http://www.facebook.com/christopher.cordle

[QUOTE=James Orr] Brock, is that Small is the New Big? I'm enjoying it to. Just trying to be
careful. [/QUOTE]

No, it is called Word of Mouth Marketing. Get it you will enjoy it. Lots of interesting ideas.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Well, this IS an interesting discussion. Oddly enough, what I'm getting out of it is two-fold.

1. Great advice from a lot of guys and an interesting discourse of different views.

2. a reminder of how powerful words can be, and how they can cause great harm even if that isn't the intention. Let this be a reminder to us here on this great forum to watch what we say, and measure our words so that we do no harm, not just to each other, but also to the others in the industry.

I'm reminded once again of the theme to the first Newport Guitar Festival - "Plays Well with Others". It's a statement that calls for the unification of the craft to respect one another, to build rather than tear down, and to participate in the industry with a support for all involved.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Great thread guys, lots a very interesting points shared by everyone!

Kevin, gonna be missing your posts, get well soon my friend!

     I loved that guitar when it was done. I'm glad that you had a chance to
play it, too. I dropped you a PM.

     My internet service has been continued to March so I'm happy to say
that I'll be free to pop into the OLF regularly as I continue to recover.

    Believe me, this means alot more to me than it could possibly to any of
you. This is my place of escape and I look forward to every visit. Thanks
for providing a comfortable place for guys like me.

     We all need a soft place to land sometimes.

    This is a really important thread for all who are building guitars to
read...whether they're currently considering selling them or not. If you're
an experienced player who has had the opportunity to play enough fine
guitars to know quality when you see, feel or hear it, you'll know when
your instruments are going to appeal to other players and will be able to
meet their needs and expectations.

     Sell them if you feel they're quality warrants and justifies it. One of the
best pieces of advice i've seen in this thread, though, is to keep your
earliest guitars close to home as you sell them to family and friends to
supply your materials for your next pieces. I doing this, you create a small
network of owners who can easily show you the guitars as they are played
and open up. this is a nice thing to be able to watch that isn't practical
when you're sending them off to distant homes. Good advice that many
of us have first and experience with. My first ten or so are in my famly
and all are playing fine and aging nicely so far.

    Being able to watch how they hold up under the rigors of regualr play
and listening to how they open up with time has proven to be a valuable
resource and reference for me.

Regards,
Kevin GallagherKevin Gallagher39060.5557291667

[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher]My internet service has been continued to March..... [/QUOTE]

Woo Hoo!

Kevin,
Best wished on your continued recovery! Thank you for being such a positive, knowledgeable, and classy force on this forum. I have learned a great deal from you. Thank you!

BTW- I've had emails and PM's from people that first wanted in, and now have thought about it and decided to be taken off the list. All have been thankful for being challenged to think seriously about where they are, where they want to be, and the best way to get there.
We have all heard that the biggest mistake we can make is to rush. There is a strong temptation to rush. Self examination is certainly the most difficult of all. We judge others by their actions and we judge ourselves on our intentions. We fool ourselves much more than we are fooled by others.
Some have stayed on the list. There are those on the list that really belong there. I think they are ready. It doesn't really matter what I think, it is more up to the builder and the customer. There are a few that asked to be removed that I think are ready, but I respect their decision.. SteveS39060.652037037

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Kevin, that is great news that you will be able to continue "escaping" here. I hope it can be a great place of refuge for you.

Don Williams, thank you for your last post. Very good words of wisdom.

I'm finding myself change with every post here. I'm glad that all of my guitars are close to home and at the same time realize that I'm lucky to have even been able to pass them on. The next two in the construction process are also staying close to home which I'm glad with. It's very good to be able to see these guitars and play them over there short (so far) life span.

Thank you all for the kind way that you've presented your selves, it certainly would be easy to just bash someone like myself who has been fortunate enough to have a couple of friends pay me market value for a rookie builder guitar.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Oh and Michael McBroom, thanks also for the great Bill Cumpiano article. A very good read and reminder too.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

This has been a very good thread. One of the things I'd like to do on my site someday is to give starting luthiers a means of access to the people who really would be able to enjoy an inexpensive guitar, warts and all, for the upside of good tone and a good story.

What's kept me from starting on that project is the concern that's been mentioned here - can every person who can build a guitar truly repair anything that might go wrong with it? Can they do so in such a way that the end product is equally or more desirable than the guitar was when it was brand new? Can they afford to do so without charging the buyer anything more than the initial price?

Until I've found a satisfactory answer to those questions, I'm just not comfortable with being involved in the "newbie" process. I'll probably accept the occasional consignment for starting builders (will be doing that shortly for a NC builder, I believe) but only with the right of refusal after I've seen and played the guitar in person to get a good idea of the workmanship.

Another thought for beginning builders (one I intend to follow when I get my building career started)- whenever it is that you start selling guitars, please avoid the temptation to go for high end materials (sorry OLF sponsors!). It's reasonable for you to sell a "learning" guitar for the material costs you put into it. But if you're buying master grade sets of wood and using high-priced exotics instead of the old standards, you're pricing yourself into a market that you probably don't belong in! True, you can't buy too many master grade koa/master grade red spruce guitars for $2000. But your buyer is probably going to compare the guitar they get from you to other $2000 guitars, regardless of materials. And just because your upgraded instrument is $5000 cheaper than some other luthier's guitar with those woods...doesn't mean that your client will end up happy if it can't beat $2000 factory guitars in fit, finish, or tone.

Again, thanks for the many thoughtful replies.

Andrewharmonist3439060.9946643518

One of the problems with reviews is that we all want/expect different things.

Look at American Idol / Xfactor

3 judges critique the same performance and almost come to blows over how much their view differ.

I spend time on a players forum that is popularted by a lot of our younger electrified brethern and the arguments over whether a Fender strat is as "good" as Gibson Les Paul comes up again and again.

I have a Squier strat that I was given. I've modded the life out of it and I love it. People who have never played a squier tell me to replace the neck. I tell them to go away!!

I've had some great reviews for my builds, but as it's a hobby and I'm never gonna give up the day job (which is where all the tools are after all!!) I'm charging "mates rates" to all & sundry, and I explain to any possible client themy failings and send them to the other owners to ask about feel, build quality, finish, tone etc.
then it's up to them, but I post pics all the way, and if they wanna back out then that's OK.

(not that anyone has (yet!!)

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

Hello All,

Newbe here! My name is Robert. I’ve been surfing OLF for a few weeks now. Yep! you guessed it. I’m building my first guitar. I got to say, that you are one great group of people! I’ve read several posts, and I have found that there’s a lot of good information here. Most importantly there’s a lot of considerate and concise advise. You guys really care! Well anyway, I’m very much looking forward to getting in on the discussions. I won’t be here very often, as my full time job (residential home builder) keeps me very busy. Couple that with a wife and two young boys, well I guess you get the picture.

O.K. a little bit about me; My reason for being here. I have found a new love! I’ve built custom homes for some 30 years now. In fact, I’ve built a lot of things. But, never in my life have I enjoyed a project as much as this one. Truth be said, I have been thinking about this for some time. Only recently have I had the opportunity to get started. Now, here’s the funny part, but try not to laugh to hard. I’m seriously considering a transition from home building to instrument building. Yes, I know, first guitar, delusions of grander, pie in the sky dreams. That’s what I told myself at first because of my age. Than I thought, hey, I might be 48, but it ain’t to late. And, I’m a very determined person. There isn’t much I can’t accomplish once I put my mind to it!

So, with that, can’t wait to get back here again!

Oh! By the way, I noticed that you guys are a little philosophical.

Here’s one of my favorites by “Confucius”

“Everything has beauty, but not everyone see’s it”

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Yes, WELCOME Robert...please check back often. I'm in North Carolina, so not too terribly far from you.

Best of luck with your pursuit...let us know how it is going.

Bill

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Robert you will still be building homes only they will be for Tone Faerie.

I'm sposed ta sell ma dulcimores?

As amateur I think I see a trend towards lightly braced guitars, walking that razor edge between high performance and longevity. Even one small hidden flaw in brace-wood could spell disaster. As a pro you build for the customer and they to me seem to have become just educated enough to want that high performance guitar without knowing the price.

I like the freedom of not having customers. The freedom of reaching for something and failing or succeeding.
the freedom of reaching for a piece of flatsawn maple that whispers to me that it will resonate the way I want and promises not to split. The freedom to build what I want when I want.

The above may be B.S. I love archtops. If I had a way to be Alan Caruths student for a couple of years and could figure out an acceptable compromise between business and vision you would witness the birth of Stehieken Stringed Instruments.

This forum and the contributions of ALL its members (except for the slightly crazy one) is a priceless thing.
Helping ALL here follow their vision.

The tone faerie tell me to say listen to your wood, know your wood, it all begins and ends with the wood.
Also if you don't listen to tone faerie even Waverlys will not stay in tune.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Better late than never, let me chime in...

In 1996 a friend and I started (in his garage) a small company building a specialty item for a niche market in off road vehicles. We had a national unveiling of the product in front of numerous other vendors, several magazines, and hundreds of consumers. A firm believer in guerilla marketing, I planted the seeds and the hype was incredible.

This device worked flawlessly and the face to face response was incredible. We knew we were headed for stardom. The trouble was we had rushed to prepare for this unveiling and didn't attend to a few details. While not affecting the function directly, they did lend an unmistakable amature quality to our operation. In fact if you were Google this item today, 10 years later, you will still find the negative reviews based on the afore mentioned deficiencies. 10 years!

In the long run we were globally successful and those reviews never hurt us though I'm sure we lost a few sales because of them. I'm just as sure that our success was due in part to the fact that we were the only game in town.

Two points to cover here.

While internet reviews may not be forever, they do last quite a while. Similarly, even if they don't damage your operation (and I believe they can), they are still there waiting to embarass you for a long long time.

Second, I really learned to hate off road vehicles as a hobby. When your hobby is a business it really tests the limits of your passion.

This second point really hits home for me. I recently had a chance to put a few guitars in a local music store. While I did have to do some soul searching on quality issues (thanx John), it was finally this "business" aspect of things that caused me to decline the offer. With two young kids at home and a full time corporate life it's just too much. My family comes first, always. While I do hope to use lutherie as a supplement to my retirement (2020-2025) for now I choose to keep it a hobby and not a business.

Hesh,

     Somebody already embedded a processor into a guitar that tunes
it....to several hundred different tunings in just a second. I've played a few
Transperformer retrofitted guitars and have been absolutely amazed at its
performance every time.

Here's a link    http://transperformance.com/mult imedia/index1.html

    Watch a few of the videos of it in operation both live and in the studio.
It really is interesting.

    The price is high enough for me to know that I'll most likely never own
one...unless, that is......someone has one who wants to trade it for an
acoustic guitar commission from me.

    an interetsing site to visit to say the least.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Hello All,

Thanks for the warm welcome from everyone!

Ya'll sure got a good sense of humor

Hesh - no garages. However, house sized guitar might be interesting

Bill - I"m an hour drive from Murphy, NC. How far are you? And, do you know of any local wood suppliers?

K.O. - Funny you should mention dulcimers, My second instrument build was a dulcimer. My first was a wood xylophone. Both of which I built from scraps in my shop. When I figure out how to upload pics & sound, I’ll post them. If’n yer interested? Oh! One more thing - Who or What is Tone Faerie?

On another note; Has anyone heard of “ACOUSTIC WOODS LTD.”? they have some Sitka bear claw tops for $30.00 ea. That look real nice at their web site.

Thanks again, Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Hi Robert, great introduction!

Welcome to the OLF, it'a warm place all year long, your guitar building skills will take a major leap here, stay close to the veterans, they know what they talk about!

Serge

Hello All,

Just figured out that AC Woods is ACOUSTIC WOODS LTD.

Thanks anyway!

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!